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☆_Nemlim_☆
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PostSubject: Horn of the Phantom Beast   Tue Nov 08, 2011 4:52 pm

does a non-continous trap-card, yet being treated as an equip card need to stay face-up after it's effect activate to resolve properly?
i.e: when the monster with it crashed with "Telephatic-Power".


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PostSubject: Lingering Effect   Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:08 am

i would say that it stays on the field, but i understand the confusion. Sword Hunter is an AWESOME effect monster that equips itself with monsters it defeats. It is questionable as to where the defeated monster goes when it is equipped to Sword Hunter. I usually rule it as the monster goes into my spell/trap zone. Sword Hunter does NOT make the monster an equip spell card. All it does is equip it to itself. However, in the case of spells and traps, Golden Sarcophagus goes into the graveyard and has a Lingering Effect. Based on the existence of Lingering Effects, I would say the trap card goes to the graveyard. It has a Lingering Effect, so there is no need for the card to be on the field. Kinda like Shield and Sword or Graceful charity. It's effect resolves, but the card goes to the graveyard, and at the end of the turn the effect ends.

this is from yugioh wikia

A Lingering Effect is any effect that resolves after the card itself has resolved, and has been sent to the Graveyard. Lingering effects cannot be negated (except by negating the initial effect). Here are a few such cards with these effects:
Final Countdown
Last Will
Cold Wave
Return from the Different Dimension
Power Bond
Hieroglyph Lithograph
Gold Sarcophagus
Crush Card Virus
One type of card which often has a "lingering" effect are the Token Monsters. Tokens are not Effect Monsters and they do not have any effects of their own; rather, the "effects" of Token Monsters are actually the lingering effect of the Spell, Trap or Effect Monster that Summoned it.
These effects, however, are listed as effect(s) of the Token Monsters to make their purposes less confusing.
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PostSubject: Re: Horn of the Phantom Beast   Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:32 am

Horn of the Phantom Beast equips itself to a Beast/Beast-Warrior type monster. It acts as if it were an equip spell card and it remains in it's S/T zone. And no, it is not a Lingering effect either as the first effect of gaining attack points is continuous, while the second effect is trigger. Horn of the Phantom Beast goes away if you: send it or it's equipped monster away by any means or by placing the equipped monster face-down.


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PostSubject: Re: Horn of the Phantom Beast   Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:24 am

You are both way off what nemlim is asking, Xeina is also way wrong while at it. Monsters that are equipped to other monsters go in the spell/trap zone because that's where equips go and as a monster cannot exist in the s/t card zone it is now a spell card, which makes it an equip spell card. Also the text of Sword Hunter happens to specifically say that the monster becomes an Equip Spell Card, so saying the exact opposite can't possibly be right.

What nemlim is asking is whether the card has to remain face up to resolve the effect of drawing a card. Example: Horn of the Phantom Beast is equipped to Flamvell Firedog, that Flamevell Firedog destroys Celtic Guardian by battle, both Horn and Firedog have the same trigger, they chain and the player puts Firedog on chain link 2, the opponent chains Solemn Warning to the effect of Firedog. When Horn resolves it is no longer on the field, so does the player draw, that is the question.

Trap cards that equip themselves to the monster are not treated as Equip Spell Cards but they are still Equip Cards (they are equip cards but not spell cards therefore not equip spell cards) for all cards that mention them (and some that don't, like Tailor Of The Fickle) and share similar properties. Now as to whether equip cards have to remain face-up, if I had to use a legal example I'd bring up equip cards that special summon monsters. Premature Burial acts like Call of the Haunted, not Darius and Doom Shaman, so if Mystical Space Typhoon is chained to Premature Burial the monster is never summoned, that is not because the doom clause applies in the graveyard or will wait to apply afterwards, but because Premature Burial has to stay face up to resolve properly even though it is not a continuous spell card.

That being said, if I had to give the reason that makes me believe Horn of the Phantom Beast will not allow the player to draw in the above case and has to stay face up to resolve properly, it would be "because ness and redshift said so", for example: http://www.pojo.biz/board/showthread.php?t=966968


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Spell speed 2 does NOT mean you can throw cards in your opponent's face. Why is the fact you cannot chain to a summon so hard to understand?
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PostSubject: Re: Horn of the Phantom Beast   Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:01 am

to make it simple : it equips to the monster, stays on the field like its a equip spell card, if the monster is removed from the field, so is the card :P




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PostSubject: Re: Horn of the Phantom Beast   Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:19 pm

the question is actually:
if Horn of the Phantom Beast's draw-effect already activated, and then something remove it from field before resolving, did i draw?

well, if al-bhed,ness,and shift said no, so be it.
no draw.
tq.

this question is actually has been solved via chat some week/months ago btw...


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PostSubject: Re: Horn of the Phantom Beast   Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:22 pm

well, nothing can remove it from play then since its damage calc or w/e then...so they cant mst it o.O and if it WAS removed, then no draw




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PostSubject: Re: Horn of the Phantom Beast   Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:01 pm

"End of Damage Step" is probably what you're referring.
and as mentioned, you can remove it by removing the monster it's equipped by any means like the given example: Telephatic Power or Solemn Warninging Firedog.

Sword of Revealing Light still flipping monster face-up when MST is chained though, and only it's "continous" effect will not be applied.


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PostSubject: Re: Horn of the Phantom Beast   Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:28 pm

Princess of Darkness wrote:
well, nothing can remove it from play then since its damage calc or w/e then...so they cant mst it o.O and if it WAS removed, then no draw
Try to read the posts in the thread before answering a question, take it as a rule since if you don't read them you may say the exact same thing someone else has said or answer a question that is not asked or answer a question wrong after the right answer has been given, which is spam in all of those cases if it is due to negligence.

☆_Nemlim_☆ wrote:
Sword of Revealing Light still flipping monster face-up when MST is chained though, and only it's "continous" effect will not be applied.
As it happens upon the initial resolution you could say its part of its normal spell properties. Well, all that is speculation as I wouldn't use Swords of Revealing Light as an indication for any rule if possible, it is one of those weird cards after all, so I'll just go ahead and leave it on the "exception board" as it is how it is. That being said besides pojo q&a's word on the matter I am still looking for a relevant rule on the equip traps, we already know equip spells act as such and logic does dictate it should work like this, but I'd still like the confirmation and am still not finding much. Well, there aren't that many cards of that kind anyways so it's not surprising, the normal traps that act as equip cards and activate trigger-like effects I've found are only these:
At one with the sword
D-Chain
Evil Blast
Horn of the Phantom Beast

Then again if you think about it, only to complicate the situation further, there are equip cards (including the Inzecter's Orb "equip trap") that activate an effect by sending the card itself to the graveyard, which means it of course will not be face up while resolving that effect, but I guess it only serves to show you can't treat all effects the same, they act like impernament cards in a way at those times.


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JarOfCookies: I feel that my deck is a bit too slow.
JarOfCookies: got any idea to speed my deck up a bit?
JarOfCookies: Gravity bind maybe?

Spell speed 2 does NOT mean you can throw cards in your opponent's face. Why is the fact you cannot chain to a summon so hard to understand?
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